Shocks and rear tires

[maxradmc]

Question of the day from someone who doesn’t own a car yet, but my grandson does and I help with that.

How do I create droop or more droop ( front and rear) with factory drag slash shocks? I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with the internal limiter . Is there a better shock at a poor man’s reasonable price. I will need spring recommendations also.

Widest 2.2/3 drag slicks- belted & non belted. Compound for no prep dry tire.?

Do they make the 2.2/3 wheels with different back spacing.

Best front tires?
Thanks in advance for those that express their opinion.

 

[majin]

welcome to the forum bud, the smarter guys will be along shortly

 

[BA0701]

Question of the day from someone who doesn’t own a car yet, but my grandson does and I help with that.

How do I create droop or more droop ( front and rear) with factory drag slash shocks? I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with the internal limiter . Is there a better shock at a poor man’s reasonable price. I will need spring recommendations also.

Widest 2.2/3 drag slicks- belted & non belted. Compound for no prep dry tire.?

Do they make the 2.2/3 wheels with different back spacing.

Best front tires?
Thanks in advance for those that express their opinion.

I am actively playing with droop with a few sets of crawler shocks. The shocks I have been using are the stock Capra 1.9 shocks, the 90mm Desert Lizards, and the Team Associated Enduro shocks. The Desert Lizards are literally designed for droop, and include several weights and lengths of springs so you can dial your setup in to your liking.

I tried using the Desert Lizard springs in the Enduro shocks, and it is working well. There are many different combinations you can use, such as placing a spring underneath the plunger in your shock, and you can also place a spring on top of the plunger. Here is a picture I took to share here, just a few days ago, that shows the impact of placing a medium length soft Desert Lizard spring underneath the plunger of the Enduro shocks. In this image there is no internal spring on top of the plunger, and in testing the shocks with my hands they are very smooth, still have their articulation, and as you can see, in this configuration, they will pull the body to the axles by close to 1/2 - 3/4".

Whether the Desert Lizard shocks would work with your shocks or not would depend on which shocks you are using. But, if the diameter works, then I recommend them, because of each set includes 2 each of three different lengths, and three different stiffness shocks, so you have a lot of options to test, and dial your shocks in to your personal preference.

 

[WickedFog]

Adding a spring under the plunger is just going to limit your shock's extension when a tire dips into a crevice. You definitely don't want that.

 

[BA0701]

Adding a spring under the plunger is just going to limit your shock's extension when a tire dips into a crevice. You definitely don't want that.

Depends on how you have your shocks configured, if running them upside down, as I plan to, then that is exactly where you want them.

Besides, if you are trying to draw the body to the axles, aka droop, where else are you supposed to put them?

 

[WickedFog]

Depends on how you have your shocks configured, if running them upside down, as I plan to, then that is exactly where you want them.

Besides, if you are trying to draw the body to the axles, aka droop, where else are you supposed to put them?

Running them upside down doesn't change the fact you are limiting your travel.

The only way to achieve droop is with weight on the chassis, or lighter springs. You want all the travel you can get with crawler shocks, and limiting that with a spring under the plunger is not going to help with that.

 

[BA0701]

No, running them upside down is still limiting your travel, no matter which way you flip em.

The only way to achieve droop is with weight on the chassis, or lighter springs. You want all the travel you can get with crawler shocks, and limiting that with a spring under the plunger is not going to help with that.

I will take some pics later this evening, going to require more than one person to capture, but I know that the limit to the travel is minimum, less than the difference in height that I just demonstrated.. I have not heard of anyone adding weight to the top end before, in order to bring it down. That, in my opinion would be counter productive to what you are trying to accomplish with droop, which is to attain LCG while keeping your top end weight at a minimum. Desert Lizards are literally designed to have springs placed below, and above the plungers, below for the droop, and above for the dampening. Every droop mod I have seen involves placing a spring below the plunger, even the famous pen spring mod.

Using weaker springs could also result in weaker dampening, which is also the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish. Your goal is to maintain the level of dampening that your rig functions with best, minimize the weight of your top end, and to attain an LCG, all of which is accomplished by simply placing a spring under the plunger. What length/weight of spring depends strictly on what you, as an individual, are trying to accomplish, and feel most comfortable with.

 

[WickedFog]

I will take some pics later this evening, going to require more than one person to capture, but I know that the limit to the travel is minimum, less than the difference in height that I just demonstrated.. I have not heard of anyone adding weight to the top end before, in order to bring it down. That, in my opinion would be counter productive to what you are trying to accomplish with droop, which is to attain LCG while keeping your top end weight at a minimum. Desert Lizards are literally designed to have springs placed below, and above the plungers, below for the droop, and above for the dampening. Every droop mod I have seen involves placing a spring below the plunger, even the famous pen spring mod.

Using weaker springs could also result in weaker dampening, which is also the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish. Your goal is to maintain the level of dampening that your rig functions with best, minimize the weight of your top end, and to attain an LCG, all of which is accomplished by simply placing a spring under the plunger. What length/weight of spring depends strictly on what you, as an individual, are trying to accomplish, and feel most comfortable with.

But you are still limiting the travel of your shocks that way. In my opinion, that is a pretty absurd way to attain droop.

And adding weight to the chassis can be done fairly low with the center crossmember. Yeah, it will raise your CG, but you can compensate with weight on the axles and wheels.

Every bit of it is a tradeoff, no matter where you put the weight. Adding weight means your rig will be heavier going up steep inclines. The steeper the incline, the more the weight is going to make it hard for you to get up the incline.

I did a lot of testing on crawlers at various degrees of incline for a little competition we was having in a group. At some point, adding weight to the chassis (sprung weight) is detrimental. The same as it is at some point with adding weight to the axles (unsprung weight).

But limiting your shock travel will have adverse effects over rocks and such where one wheel dips down into a crevice. If it can't reach the terrain because you have limited the travel, then you are only hurting performance.

I don't care how the Desert Lizards were designed. It's just not a good idea. I could design a can opener that is designed to open cans upside down. Would it work? Yeah. But you're going to spill your beans every time you use it.

To each their own.

 

[BA0701]

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree. You always want to minimize weight above the axles, period, I have spent countless hours in the past several months researching this very thing, reading articles, watching people like West Desert Wheeler (I have shared a few of these videos here), actually speaking to some of these folks, and not one time have I heard anyone say to add weight to the top end. it is antithetical to what you are trying to achieve. Build your shocks your way, and I will build mine my way. The fact that you don't care how one of the best selling shocks on the market is designed says everything I need to know.

By your analogy, you should never add horsepower to your personal vehicle, because it will lower gas mileage. Everything always comes with some sort of cost, no matter what you are doing. It is all about accompishing specific goals, in my case, making my rig crawl as well as I can make it, and that most definitely is not going to include intentionally adding weight to the top end. Cheers man!

 

[WickedFog]

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree. You always want to minimize weight above the axles, period, I have spent countless hours in the past several months researching this very thing, reading articles, watching people like West Desert Wheeler (I have shared a few of these videos here), actually speaking to some of these folks, and not one time have I heard anyone say to add weight to the top end. it is antithetical to what you are trying to achieve. Build your shocks your way, and I will build mine my way. The fact that you don't care how one of the best selling shocks on the market is designed says everything I need to know.

By your analogy, you should never add horsepower to your personal vehicle, because it will lower gas mileage. Everything always comes with some sort of cost, no matter what you are doing. It is all about accompishing specific goals, in my case, making my rig crawl as well as I can make it, and that most definitely is not going to include intentionally adding weight to the top end. Cheers man!

I only said to add weight to the chassis if you need to to get droop as if you needed to dial it in. It's definitely not ideal, and I never said it was. But people do it. There is a reason they sell brass nerf bars, bumpers, brass crossmembers, etc. It's all part of tuning for your circumstances. Lighter springs is the ideal way to get droop. But shortening your shock's travel to do that is far more detrimental than adding a little chassis weight in the right spots.

And I don't see how what I said in any way is comparable to not adding HP to save gas mileage. That's actually completely not true anyway. Adding HP typically increases fuel efficiency. Efficiency increases fuel ecomomy. I didn't have to research that. I learned that building drag cars, where I built my own chassis, setup my suspension to launch properly, etc. And adding an extra 275 HP to my engine actually raised my fuel economy by 8 mpg when I drove sensibly

 

[BA0701]

Question of the day from someone who doesn’t own a car yet, but my grandson does and I help with that.

How do I create droop or more droop ( front and rear) with factory drag slash shocks? I have a sneaking suspicion it has something to do with the internal limiter . Is there a better shock at a poor man’s reasonable price. I will need spring recommendations also.

Widest 2.2/3 drag slicks- belted & non belted. Compound for no prep dry tire.?

Do they make the 2.2/3 wheels with different back spacing.

Best front tires?
Thanks in advance for those that express their opinion.

Sorry for all of the confusion that have you've received. Having spent the last few months researching building out a Capra for crawling, the information on drooping your shocks I shared is what I have found, and will be universal. As a matter of fact, finding information regarding adding droop to specific shocks, outside of the Desert Lizards can be a difficult task, which lead to some conversations I have had, and some of my own active experimentation, which continues. Though, clearly my needs for droop will differ from yours, the methods used for drooping your shocks will be the same.. How much room do you have currently between the top of the rear tires and the body? I would imagine that there is not a ton of space in there, already, with those big slicks that the drag slash comes with, you'll, obviously, want to avoid rubbing.

There is a popular "Pen Mod", for adding droop to your shocks, and is likely the simplest and cheapest way to see if it will accomplish what you are looking for. The Pen Mod involves simply taking the spring from a clicky style ballpoint pen, and installing it underneath the plunger inside of your shock. Those springs should be universal for the same brand of pen. It isn't going to provide a ton of draw, to pull your body down, but it will add some. Besides, I am not sure how much the Drag Slash weighs, and how much of that weight is above the axles. That is where I would start. Maybe it will provide you all the droop you are looking for out of the gate, but if you need more droop or need to stiffen things up, you can try other springs, like the ones I mentioned, and experiment.

All you need your springs to do is be uniform in length and spring rate, as well as needing them to fit inside the body of your shock, which the pen mod will work almost every time. You can experiment with length and spring rate, once you have a baseline to go off of. I'd start with the pen mod, the cheapest/easiest method, and see where that gets you first.

Let us know how things work out for you. Cheers!

 

[WickedFog]

Sorry for all of the confusion that have you've received. Having spent the last few months researching building out a Capra for crawling, the information on drooping your shocks I shared is what I have found, and will be universal. As a matter of fact, finding information regarding adding droop to specific shocks, outside of the Desert Lizards can be a difficult task, which lead to some conversations I have had, and some of my own active experimentation, which continues. Though, clearly my needs for droop will differ from yours, the methods used for drooping your shocks will be the same.. How much room do you have currently between the top of the rear tires and the body? I would imagine that there is not a ton of space in there, already, with those big slicks that the drag slash comes with, you'll, obviously, want to avoid rubbing.

There is a popular "Pen Mod", for adding droop to your shocks, and is likely the simplest and cheapest way to see if it will accomplish what you are looking for. The Pen Mod involves simply taking the spring from a clicky style ballpoint pen, and installing it underneath the plunger inside of your shock. Those springs should be universal for the same brand of pen. It isn't going to provide a ton of draw, to pull your body down, but it will add some. Besides, I am not sure how much the Drag Slash weighs, and how much of that weight is above the axles. That is where I would start. Maybe it will provide you all the droop you are looking for out of the gate, but if you need more droop or need to stiffen things up, you can try other springs, like the ones I mentioned, and experiment.

All you need your springs to do is be uniform in length and spring rate, as well as needing them to fit inside the body of your shock, which the pen mod will work almost every time. You can experiment with length and spring rate, once you have a baseline to go off of. I'd start with the pen mod, the cheapest/easiest method, and see where that gets you first.

Let us know how things work out for you. Cheers!

The pen spring method is absolutlely fine for a drag car. You don't need all that downward shock travel. You can use washers if you want.

So just so the op knows, I was saying it's not a good idea to do that on a crawler.